https://twitter.com/DawahWise/status/1369341510928449547
https://twitter.com/DawahWise/status/1369318841101193217
This is a conversation with some Muslim apologists. He began to object to the notion of penal substitutionary atonement. This being that Christ an innocent party. He also argues the background of “human sacrifice” is pagan. I mentioned the Jewish background to the atonement found in the Messianic passages (foreshadowed in the Levitical Laws). I also pointed out that Islam teaches Jews and Christians will atone for sins.
The problem with his retort about these Jews and Christians in hell atoning for the sins of Muslims is that he confuses the point. The point is the individuals in hell are guilty of their own deeds but not the deeds of Muslims. So, you have an innocent party taking on the sins of another. He loses any ground to object to the atonement on these grounds.
He also stated that it is immoral for a parent to take the responsibility for a child. The issue is that isn’t obviously the case. Take for example a child that steals from a store and gets caught. The parents often find themselves burdened with the deeds that they did not commit. That doesn’t seem inherently wrong because a parent has a special obligation and responsibilities to their children rather than some stranger. Dr. Craig makes similar observations about companies:
Furthermore, no response to the issue of arbitrary forgiveness is provided. In Islam, God just forgives people that are Law-breakers with no justification. In fact, he places the sins of others on those in hell. This is akin to being the friend of a judge that lets you off the hook for murder because your relationship.
I asked him how he geta around the Jewish background to that of the sacrifice of Christ in the OT. I think we see in Abrham historical example of what God would demand later. But even more clearly we see in Isaiah 53:
“Who has believed our message,
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a tender plant,
and like a root out of a dry ground;
he had no form and he had no majesty that we should look at him,
and there is no attractiveness that we should desire him.
3 “He was despised and rejected by others,
and a man of sorrows,
intimately familiar with suffering;
and like one from whom people hide their faces;
and we despised him
and did not value him.
4 “Surely he has borne our sufferings
and carried our sorrows;
yet we considered him stricken,
and struck down by God,
and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
and he was crushed for our iniquities,
and the punishment that made us whole was upon him,
and by his bruises we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray,
we have turned, each of us, to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and he was afflicted,
yet he didn’t open his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
as a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 “From detention and judgment he was taken away—
and who can even think about his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living,
he was stricken for the transgression of my people.
9 Then they made his grave with the wicked,
and with rich people in his death,
although he had committed no violence,
nor was there any deceit in his mouth.”
Instead of arguing over the issue about the identity of the suffering servant I just brought up that he was killed for the transgressions of others. The problem with saying this isn’t Christ is that this is a Messianic text. Muslims accept Jesus as the messiah. The other issue is that the conversation has developed where he is arguing that Isaiah 52-53 is about the nation of Israel. The problem with this is that it teaches then that the nation of Israel will atone for the sins of others. That still is a problem with the Islamic position.
http://spirited-tech.com/2021/03/10/singer-on-isaiah-53/
https://triablogue.blogspot.com/2019/03/jesus-fulfillment-of-other-servant-songs.html
http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/04/he-will-see-light-in-isaiah-5311.html
The Council 