I’m going to share a conversation I had over the Death Penalty:
Ten million executions of the absolute guilty are not worth one innocent life. Abolish the death penalty in America
TheSire:
Are you against the death penalty?
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
Yes. Ten million executions of the absolute guilty are not worth one innocent life. Abolish the death penalty in America It is Biblical Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
TheSire:
I think this is an interesting discussion. I hold that the Death penalty is foundational to justice. Give me your thoughts on my article:
http://spirited-tech.com/2020/07/05/whoever-sheds-mans-blood/
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
Death is not “foundational to justice”. When telling lies to achieve a selfish goal corrupts justice, then the “foundations of justice” are destroyed. When innocent blood is shed because of lies, there is no justice for anyone. There is only judgment.
TheSire:
Is your position that the death penalty is inherently immoral? Like it is wrong at all times and places?
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
My position is that the corruption of the world’s judicial system is absolute. This is proven every day. One innocent human being’s death is not worth all the guilty since time immemorial. Knowing this fact, all executions are suspect and therefore immoral. Proverbs 6:16-19
TheSire:
How do you get around all the OT passages where God commands the death penalty? It seems that Israel was wicked at yet they were obligated to follow the Mosaic Law and even prior with Gen 9:6.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
I am bound to follow the teachings of Christ. He came to fulfill the law, not to change it. We have seen the innocent released from Death Row by scientific evidence, and seen acknowledgments by prosecutors who knew the truth as the cell door closed on Death Row.
TheSire:
Matthew 5:17 strengthens the case that the Death penalty is an unchanging moral rule from God for nations. You have to say God commanded evil in the OT times that required the death penalty for various crimes. OT didn’t even have DNA, cameras, etc. They required witnesses.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
Answer this: Do you believe that one innocent life is worth executing all of the guilty since the beginning of time?
TheSire:
I don’t think we should knowingly execute innocent people for any cost. People that think that we should be executed is my thought.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
God allows/demands the death penalty. Agreed To the heart of it – corrupt governments (men) have knowingly executed innocent men via police/prosecutorial misconduct or willful negligence. Therefore, since the system is not trustworthy, I stand against the death penalty
TheSire:
I would say Israel was often corrupt and sinful. Yet obligated to execute criminals. So, I don’t find that to be a sufficient condition for not having the death penalty. It only means the death penalty is used unjustly but is a righteous punishment for specific crimes.
In my article, argue that innocent people are thrown in prisons to be tortured. Governments have used prisons for slave labor (the soviet union, Nazi Germany, and China). So, prisons can be used unjustly but according to this view, prisons should be illegal.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
No offense, but you are talking nonsense, and your position is one giant logical fallacy. You jump from one position to another with no rhyme or reason, and you throw the Bible in as a buffer to your theories. My position is clear – not one innocent is worth millions of guilty
TheSire:
Yeah, you would need to show a contradiction. You can’t just say my position doesn’t make sense. It seems like I’ve demonstrated a contradiction in your position. God orders executions in the face of the conditions you say we shouldn’t execute people.
I’ve sent you an article where I unpack what the Bible says about the issue. My point was that the OT demands executions even though the possibility of innocent people getting it was the case. Furthermore, I showed if you hold to this position you have to be against prisons.
People are falsely accused and are sent to prison to be raped, beaten, murdered, basically tortured. Since wrongful imprisonment is possible and probable, then prisons are immoral.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
There is the hope of rectifying that situation. There is no hope of rectifying the death of an innocent. It is immoral to knowingly send an innocent human to prison or to keep them there when innocence is proven. It’s not rocket science
TheSire:
Yeah, but this is to change the standard. The standard was that it’s always wrong to execute someone because they might be innocent. I showed that contradicts the Bible. Now, the standard is that one needs to be able to rectify situations. Seems like a change in position.
I don’t think all imprisonment can be rectified. A person may be innocent and systemically beaten by guards and raped by other prisoners. That’s not something that goes away when released. Furthermore, many are in prison till death. For example Chinese, Nazis, and etc.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
If you do not understand my position, I do not know what to say. I am against the murder of innocents by a corrupt justice system
TheSire:
Correct me if I’m wrong: Your position is that it’s always wrong for a government to execute a person because they could be wrongfully executing people (whether the possibility or it be because of a high probability). You maintain that that is sufficient. Yay or nay?
The death penalty isn’t the belief the government should be able to kill people arbitrarily. Most people agree it is morally wrong to knowingly execute innocent people.
CleanSlate316 Ministry:
You are lost in your own fame. Good day.
The Council 