This will be a continuation of my response to the Twitter comedians on the Bible and abortion:

https://spirited-tech.com/2022/07/02/john-wings-defense-of-abortion/

John Fugelsang:

Jesus was Jewish – a radical reform Jew, which is sort of what got Him killed. But his religion of Judaism does not ban abortion. Ask a rabbi about it. Abortions are legal in Israel – they’re free, too. But don’t expect GOP politicians to demand an end to US foreign aid.

TheSire:

Jesus was a 2nd Temple Jew, but he wasn’t merely a 2nd temple Jew. He was God in the flesh pointing out the hypocrisy and abandonment the Jewish sects had committed of the OT. If they believed Moses, then they would’ve believed Christ (John 5:46). 2nd Temple Judaism and OT Judaism have nothing to do with modern-day Judaism. You should ask them what the Talmud states about Christ. Would Christ agree with the Talmud?

John Fugelsang:

Yes, “thou shalt not kill” – that’s sort of why Jesus is against the death penalty. He overturns “eye for an eye” in his 1st public sermon. But Genesis states that life begins with first breath. God makes it clear in Exodus He does not assign a fetus the same value as a woman.

Oh- God gives Moses detailed abortion tips for pregnant unfaithful wives in Numbers 5.

Some will dispute this – but you should read it & read the competing interpretations.

At best, the pregnant woman is mutilated by the ritual – & she has no choice in the matter.

…

So Jesus challenged old ways – He overturns Eye for an Eye in Sermon on the Mount; he’s all about forgiveness and compassion. He tells us to love enemies & that rich guys don’t easily get to heaven

TheSire:

These are common and easily debunked claims:

https://spirited-tech.com/2022/06/08/abortion-in-the-bible/

https://spirited-tech.com/2020/05/20/is-abortion-biblical/

I deal with the Sermon on the Mount here:

https://spirited-tech.com/2018/07/18/the-law-and-the-new-testament-2/

John Fugelsang:

Now you probably don’t need tons of Bible verses that command the murder of children – or even worse, unborn children – so I won’t list too many. But. Hos 13:16 they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

TheSire:

The issue becomes how this establishes that abortion is justified. I maintain that God has the right over the entire universe. He has the right to take or give life. He can allow his wrath to be poured on any city. This doesn’t entail that women have an unequivocal right to kill their children. This was a because the Northern Kingdom violated their covenant with Yahweh:

The wrath of God against the people who have broken his covenant is here portrayed with intensity unmatched elsewhere in Hosea. This passage constitutes the climax of the punishment message which began in chap. 1. Though frequently interrupted by reminders of hope for the eventual future, the dominant message of Hosea is that the Northern Kingdom must come to a miserable end because it has violated its solemn contract with Yahweh. Hosea preached these words close to the end of Israel’s existence as an independent nation. The northern counter-cultus (v 2) established by Jeroboam I had prevailed through the North’s entire history (2 Kgs 17:22–23). This open violation of the covenant’s first and second commandments (Exod 20:3–4; Deut 5:7–8) was by itself sufficient cause for the invocation of divine sanctions. Because Israel had persisted to the last in this sin, no mere token punishment was to be expected. Israel would be swept away into oblivion (v 3), violently decimated (vv 7–8); helpless before the enemy Yahweh had ordained to destroy them (vv 10–13) and slated for certain death (vv 14—14:1[13:16]).

Douglas Stuart. Hosea-Jonah, Volume 31 (Kindle Locations 9043-9050). Zondervan Academic. Kindle Edition.

The right to take human life was and is God alone. I’ve explained this before:

https://spirited-tech.com/2022/06/08/abortion-in-the-bible/

John Fugelsang:

Lev 20:9 anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death (even Jesus calls out the Pharisees for hypocrisy on this one in Mark 7)

TheSire:

Been there and done that:

https://spirited-tech.com/2021/06/02/should-we-execute-rebellious-children/

John Fugelsang:

Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.

You get the idea. So the whole point of Jesus & the New Covenant is that God’s over his smiting ways and now he’s all about love & forgiveness & compassion. It’s a powerful story emotionally that is mirrored in the experiences of many guys who become ‘born again.’

TheSire:

This has to do with ANE war brides:

https://spirited-tech.com/2022/06/10/quaker-a-strange-cult/

This is utter nonsense to think that God had reformed his angry ways and just started being nice. God was always nice and gracious to rebellious humans. In fact Jesus states that he is this same very God that is so evil in the eyes of Fugelsang:

https://spirited-tech.com/2018/12/21/creator-over-all/

https://spirited-tech.com/2018/03/19/is-homosexuality-a-sin/