John 5:15-32 (NASB)

15 The man went away and informed the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. 16 For this reason, the Jews were persecuting Jesus because He was doing these things on a Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

Jesus’ Equality with God

18 For this reason, therefore, the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life.

Two Resurrections

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

30 “I can do nothing on My own. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous because I do not seek My own will but the will of Him who sent Me.

31 “If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies about Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true.

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Commentary and Response

Jesus’ Relationship with the Father: Perfect Unity and Submission

The passage in John 5:19-20 emphasizes the profound unity and submission between Jesus and the Father. Multiple scholars have provided insights into this intricate relationship, each highlighting key aspects of the text.

Carson’s Insight

Carson points out that the relationship between the Father and the Son is characterized by perfect unity and submission. The statement “the Son can do nothing by himself” underscores Jesus’ complete dependence on the Father, aligning His actions entirely with the Father’s will. Carson explains, “The truth is that the Son can do nothing by himself—or, better, ‘on his own initiative’ (aph’ heautou, lit. ‘from himself’).” This means Jesus’ actions are a direct reflection of the Father’s, making any notion of independence from the Father impossible. Carson further elaborates that this relationship is not reciprocal; the Father does not imitate the Son, but the Son perfectly imitates the Father. This non-reciprocal relationship highlights Jesus’ divine identity and perfect submission: “It is impossible for the Son to take independent, self-determined action that would set him over against the Father as another God, for all the Son does is both coincident with and coextensive with all that the Father does” (Carson, The Gospel according to John).

Ridderbos’ Perspective

Ridderbos emphasizes that Jesus’ “seeing” and “hearing” from the Father are not merely metaphorical but denote an intimate, unique relationship that implies preexistence. This relationship “extends right into preexistence,” highlighting the deep connection between Jesus and the Father. The terms “seeing” and “hearing” in John denote more than just physical senses; they indicate an intimate, ongoing relationship where the Son’s actions and teachings are direct reflections of the Father’s will. This unity in action and purpose underscores Jesus’ divine authority and mission, further emphasized by the Father’s love and continuous revelation to the Son: “The Son’s ‘seeing,’ the Father’s ‘love’ for the Son, and the Father’s ‘showing’ the Son all that the Father does have the surplus value of the unique relationship between Christ as Son and God as Father” (Ridderbos, The Gospel of John).

Klink’s Analysis

Klink focuses on the antithetical parallelism in Jesus’ statement. The “Son can do nothing ‘by himself’… but only what he sees the Father doing” emphasizes that the Son’s limitations are defined by the Father’s limitless actions. This relationship signifies unity without blurring their distinct roles. Klink writes, “The point of tension between the negation and affirmation is what is emphasized: the activity of the Son is entirely defined by the activity of the Father.” The limitations placed on Jesus highlight His unique role as the divine Son, whose actions perfectly mirror the Father’s. This intimate connection showcases the divine authority and unity between the Father and the Son while maintaining their distinct identities: “This close relation between the Father and Son is not meant to blur their distinctions; the Father is the Father, and the Son is the Son. But their actions, wills, and purposes find agreement between them” (Klink, John).

Borchert’s Commentary

Borchert discusses the theological balance between Jesus’ divine and human natures. He highlights the Johannine theme of Jesus as God’s agent, acting in accordance with the Father’s will, which affirms both Jesus’ divine authority and His dependent relationship on the Father. Borchert explains that Jesus’ statements in John 5:19-24 serve as a defense against accusations of blasphemy by highlighting His dependency on the Father: “Jesus countered their anger by highlighting his dependency on the Father.” This dependency showcases Jesus’ dual nature as the powerful divine Son and the humble messenger of God. Borchert elaborates that this balance is crucial for understanding Jesus’ mission and identity, and any attempt to separate His divine and human aspects undermines the Gospel’s message: “One of the great heresies among Christians is to split Jesus from God in such a way that somehow God does not participate in the work (and death) of Jesus” (Borchert, John 1-11).

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Challenging the Mormon Interpretation

Unity and Preexistence

Understanding Jesus’ Nature and Relationship with the Father:

1. Unity with the Father:
   • Jesus’ actions are entirely aligned with the Father’s will, indicating His divine nature and perfect submission to the Father. Carson emphasizes that the Son’s inability to act independently underscores His divine identity and perfect unity with the Father. “It is impossible for the Son to take independent, self-determined action that would set him over against the Father as another God, for all the Son does is both coincident with and coextensive with all that the Father does” (Carson).
   • The LDS interpretation suggests that Jesus could act independently or differently from the Father, which contradicts the essential unity highlighted in these passages. This unity is foundational to understanding Jesus’ divine nature and mission, which are inseparable from the Father’s will.
2. Intimate Relationship:
   • Jesus’ “seeing” and “hearing” from the Father signify a unique preexistent relationship, underscoring His divine identity and eternal unity with the Father. Ridderbos highlights that these terms reflect an ongoing, intimate connection where Jesus’ actions and teachings are direct reflections of the Father’s will.
   • The LDS perspective often implies that Jesus and the Father are distinct beings with separate wills and actions, which contradicts the biblical portrayal of their unified and harmonious relationship. “The Son’s ‘seeing,’ the Father’s ‘love’ for the Son, and the Father’s ‘showing’ the Son all that the Father does have the surplus value of the unique relationship between Christ as Son and God as Father” (Ridderbos).
3. Balance of Natures:
   • Christian theology maintains the balance between Jesus’ divine and human natures, where His actions on earth were in complete harmony with the Father’s will. Borchert explains that this balance is crucial for understanding Jesus’ mission and identity, highlighting His role as God’s agent on earth. “Jesus countered their anger by highlighting his dependency on the Father” (Borchert).
   • The LDS interpretation struggles with this balance by suggesting that Jesus’ divine nature could operate independently from the Father or that His human experiences could overshadow His divine mission. This undermines the theological consistency seen in the Gospel of John, where Jesus’ actions are always presented as being in perfect harmony with the Father.
4. Hypostatic Union:
   • The doctrine of the hypostatic union holds that Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man, with two distinct natures in one person. This means that while Jesus, in His human nature, could experience growth, learning, and limitations, His divine nature remains omniscient and omnipotent.
   • Therefore, it’s not a matter of Jesus being omniscient in His human nature, but rather that His divine nature, in union with His human nature, ensures that He perfectly reflects and enacts the Father’s will.
5. Present Actions:
   • The claim that Jesus merely imitates what He sees the Father doing in a literal sense is problematic. Jesus didn’t see the Father being crucified, ascending to heaven, or being born of a virgin. The relationship is more profound and theological, signifying unity in will, purpose, and action, rather than a simplistic mimicry.
   • Jesus’ statement about seeing the Father doing things is not about a physical vision but about a profound, spiritual, and eternal unity that transcends human understanding of actions and time.
6. Heavenly Origin:
   • Jesus explicitly states His divine origin and preexistence, further affirming His unity with the Father and His divine mission. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me” (John 6:38). This heavenly origin reinforces His preexistence and divine nature, challenging any interpretation that suggests He is merely a created being or separate from the Father.

Equality with the Father

Eschatological Judge and Divine Honor:

1. Role as Eschatological Judge:
   • Jesus is given the authority to execute judgment, a role traditionally attributed to Yahweh in the Old Testament. This implies a significant level of equality with God, as judgment is a divine prerogative. “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son” (John 5:22). This role underscores Jesus’ divine authority and His unique position in the divine economy.
2. Divine Honor:
   • Jesus is to be honored just as the Father is honored. This command for equal honor further emphasizes the equality between the Father and the Son. “So that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23). This level of honor is inappropriate for a mere creature and indicates Jesus’ divine status.

High Christology in John

Evidence of Jesus’ Divinity:

1. John 1:1:
   • “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” This verse establishes the divine nature of Jesus (the Word), affirming His preexistence and equality with God.
2. John 1:18:
   • “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.” This highlights Jesus’ unique role in revealing the Father, emphasizing His divine nature and intimate relationship with God.
3. John 3:16:
   • “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” This verse underscores the uniqueness and divinity of Jesus, who is given for the salvation of humanity.
4. John 6:
   • The discourse on the bread of life further establishes Jesus’ divine identity, as He speaks of giving His flesh for the life of the world and equates belief in Him with receiving eternal life. Jesus also speaks of His origin, saying, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me” (John 6:38). This statement reinforces His preexistence and divine mission.

Biblical Teachings on Christ’s Sacrifice

The Bible teaches that Christ’s sacrifice alone is sufficient for the atonement of sins. Key passages include:

• Hebrews 9:24-28: Christ’s single, sufficient sacrifice for the sins of many. This passage underscores the completeness and finality of Jesus’ atoning work, contrasting it with the repeated sacrifices of the Old Testament.
  • “For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.” (Hebrews 9:24-26)
• Hebrews 10:10-12: The finality and completeness of Jesus’ offering. The author of Hebrews emphasizes that Jesus’ one-time sacrifice is sufficient to sanctify believers forever, rendering any further sacrifices unnecessary.
  • “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.” (Hebrews 10:10-12)
• Romans 6:8-11: The permanence of Jesus’ victory over death and sin. Paul explains that believers’ union with Christ in His death and resurrection ensures their deliverance from the power of sin and death.
  • “Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 6:8-11)
• John 14:6-7: Jesus as the sole way to the Father. Jesus’ exclusive claim as the way, the truth, and the life underscores that salvation is only possible through His atoning death and resurrection.
  • “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.'” (John 14:6-7)

These passages affirm that salvation is only through Christ’s atoning death, which conflicts with the LDS position that suggests additional divine beings or sacrifices might be necessary.

If a Mormon were to argue that the Father died for some other universe, this claim would introduce significant theological and doctrinal challenges. Firstly, the concept of the Father originating from a different universe contradicts the traditional Christian understanding of God’s nature as eternal, unchanging, and omnipresent. According to Christian theology, God is the Creator of all that exists, including any possible multiverse. He is not bound by time, space, or any created realms, which means His actions and attributes transcend any universe-specific limitations.

Moreover, the Adam-God doctrine historically suggested by early Mormon leaders, including Brigham Young, implies that God the Father was once a mortal man who lived on an earth similar to ours. This doctrine has faced significant controversy and is not officially embraced by the modern LDS Church. However, its historical presence in Mormon thought underscores a view of God that is deeply rooted in the physical realm of this world. If one were to argue that God the Father operated within another universe, it would not only conflict with the mainstream Christian doctrine of God’s nature but also create inconsistencies within the historical teachings of Mormonism itself. The LDS emphasis on God’s dealings with humanity on this earth would seem incompatible with the notion of God engaging in similar acts of atonement or mortality in a completely separate universe. This highlights a fundamental divergence from the biblical portrayal of God, who is eternally consistent and whose salvific work is uniquely accomplished through Jesus Christ within the context of human history on this earth.

LDS Scriptures and Teachings:

• The Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) and other LDS scriptures frequently depict God the Father in relation to this earth and its inhabitants. For example, D&C 130:22 states, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also.” This anthropomorphic view suggests a direct connection to human existence and experiences on this earth, rather than a different universe.
• In the Book of Abraham (part of the Pearl of Great Price), there are references to God organizing this world and overseeing its inhabitants. Abraham 3:24-25 discusses the pre-mortal council and the creation of the earth, indicating that God’s primary focus is on this particular creation.

The Plan of Salvation:

• The LDS doctrine of the Plan of Salvation revolves around the progression of souls on this earth. This plan involves the premortal existence, mortal life, and post-mortal existence, with specific emphasis on the role of Jesus Christ as the Savior of this world. This suggests a continuity and direct involvement of God the Father with this world.
• The concept of eternal progression within Mormonism often places God the Father within the context of this world, guiding His children through their mortal probation and eventual exaltation.

Historical Teachings and Statements:

• Early LDS leaders, including Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, taught that God the Father was once a man who progressed to godhood. This teaching, known as the doctrine of eternal progression, implies that God’s experiences are analogous to human experiences on this earth, reinforcing the connection to this world.
• Joseph Smith’s King Follett Discourse explicitly states that God was once a man and has since progressed to His current exalted state. This discourse ties God’s experiences to human-like experiences, suggesting a shared context with this world.

Temple Ordinances and Covenants:

The temples themselves are viewed as sacred spaces where heaven and earth meet, and where covenants with God the Father are made in relation to this earthly life.

LDS temple ordinances and covenants are centered around the concept of progressing towards becoming like God, within the context of this world. The endowment ceremony, sealing ordinances, and other temple rites all emphasize the eternal nature of family relationships and individual progression, which are intimately connected to life on this earth.

Conclusion

The interpretation provided aligns with the biblical texts and theological understanding of Jesus’ unique, divine relationship with the Father and His role in salvation. This interpretation better fits the prologue and overall message of the Gospel of John. The LDS interpretation, which posits a separable and less unified relationship between Jesus and the Father, conflicts with the consistent biblical portrayal of their perfect unity and harmony. Additionally, understanding the hypostatic union and the theological context of Jesus’ statements further challenges the LDS reading, emphasizing the profound spiritual unity and mission of Christ rather than a simplistic imitation of actions. The high Christology of John further affirms Jesus’ divinity, His role as eschatological judge, His reception of divine honor, and His heavenly origin, all of which challenge the LDS interpretation.

LDS Speculation and Biblical Response: Regarding the speculation that God was once a morally perfected man similar to Christ, the Bible provides no support for this idea. The concept that the Father might originate from another universe or that He was once a man conflicts with key biblical teachings about the nature of God and Christ’s unique role in salvation. As such, the LDS position lacks biblical grounding and is inconsistent with the portrayal of God’s nature and Christ’s divine mission in Scripture.

The honest answer to many questions about preexistence and God’s nature is that we don’t know the specifics, and speculation should be grounded in clear biblical teaching. The Bible teaches a unique, unchanging God and emphasizes Christ’s singular, sufficient sacrifice for sin, negating the need for additional divine beings or further sacrifices.